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Knicks Pick Up Jordan Hill at 8, Toney Douglas at 29 and Milicic at the Q.

Last Night at MSG’s WaMU Theatre was filled with excitement and anticipation as days of speculation about the selection order of the NBA draft climaxed into one of the most bizzare drafts in years. The draft was highlighted by the selection of three of the best point guards, Ricky Rubio, Jonny Flynn and Ty Lawson, in the first round by the Timberwolves who had stockpiled the 5th, 6th 18th and 28th picks. Minnie’s maneuver left the Knicks with either selection option C or D as they picked up big man Jordan Hill with the 8th pick and found a guard in Toney Douglas with the 29th pick which they purchased from the Lakers for 3 Million or so dollars.

Jordan Hill goes to Knicks at 8th Spot

Jordan Hill goes to Knicks at 8th Spot

Jordan Hill averaged a double, double with Arizona his last year.  He is undoubtedly raw, but eventually should be a much better and more defensively imposing option than Jared Jeffries.  According to DXEpress’ situational analysis, the things that stands out about Hill are his upside, energy and size. He is working on everything else and seems to have heart:

Situational Statistics: This Year’s Power Forward Crop
April 23, 2009
Looking over the numbers of our top power forwards, we noticed a number of players who are projected as lottery picks that don’t look the part on paper. Sitting just behind Griffin in our rankings, we find  Jordan Hill, who’s overall Points Per Possession of.94 places him slightly below the mean of .98, not quite what one would expect from a potential top-5 draft pick. Looking deeper, we realize that Hill ranks right around the average in a number of areas. He surprisingly connects on just 63.87% of his finishing opportunities not including post ups, and only scores on 49.6% of his logged possessions –sitting just off the mean in both categories. Much of Hill’s lack of efficiency can be attributed to the fact that he only gets fouled on 10.4% of his possessions and gets very few touches in transition (16th at 1.1 Pos/g) and basket cut situations (15th at 1.8), two scenarios where he’s effective ( 1.33 and 1.43 PPP respectively). The other factor working against Hill is his jumper, which we’ll discuss later.

Clearly teams are valuing Hill’s upside quite a bit. He’s already a productive rebounder and has a lot of potential long-term as a defender, but his offense doesn’t stand out amongst his peers. He’s raw, but some teams see his physical profile and athleticism and assume he will be a player that develops into a bigger threat on the next level.

The Toney Douglas pick put the Knicks far down on their point guard list, but Douglas is a good selection who has the potential to be a solid role player. He is not a true point, not a great passer and does not create his own shot nearly as well as the other guards. However, he can score an he has a defensive mindset. DXExpress has this to say about Douglas:

Situational Statistics: This Year’s Point Guard Crop
May 8, 2009
Toney Douglas, was one of the most efficient players on our list, using over 20 possessions per game (20.7). His overall PPP of 1.04 was the second best of all players, while his PPP as a finisher of 1.22 was sixth best. As a jump shooter, he scored 1.41 PPP on unguarded catch and shoot attempts, and 1 PPP on pull ups. A gifted off the ball player who scores 1.23 PPP (5th) shooting off of screens and 1.14 PPP in spot up situations, Douglas is only an average shot creator (.85 Isolation PPP), but he doesn’t turn the ball over in the half court almost at all (9.7%, 2nd), has experience running the pick and roll (5.3 Pos/G, 2nd), is an excellent defender, and seems like an ideal complement to a taller ball-handling guard. His stock has risen in recent months, and will be interesting to how his limitations as a distributor (he ranks dead last in amongst all passing metrics amongst draft-eligible PGs) factor in to where he’s selected on draft day.

The Jordan Hill pick received a mixture of cheers and boos, while the Douglas pick met a slightly more disappointed chorus of boos from fans who thought either Stephen Curry of Rick Rubio would be available after Tyreke Evans was the first guard taken at 4 by the Kings. Still, the buzz around the Garden was that the Knicks were going to be involved in a trade that would bring Rubio to New York.

Knicks Going to the Darko Side

Knicks Going to the Darko Side

In addition, the Knicks picked up another big in Darko Milicic, the disappointing lottery pick turned back-up while getting rid of Quentin Richardson who has been reduced to a role player after back surgery a little over a year ago.

Overall Evaluation and Grade: Incomplete. (Chad Ford says B+) This is one of those situations where a grade is a little more inadequate than usual. The draft has limitations especially when one is relegated to the eighth spot and is outmaneuvered by the likes of the Timberwolves who picked up the 5 spot and two of the best guards in the draft. The picks the Knicks made were considered among the best on the board at the time and they addressed their need for a mobile, defensive big. They also took a stab at getting a serviceable guard with defensive capabilities. These are truly choices which must be viewed over time. On the other hand, it is a little hard to tell whether the Knicks are building a competitive team yet for 2009-2010 or an attractive team for the top free agents in 2010. In Milicic, the Knicks continue to collect other teams undesirables as in Hughes and Harrington. They failed to make a move, yet, to pick up a guard to replace Duhon to run the D’Antoni system. And the big they picked up in Hill is not going to shake up the division in the first year. I would feel comfortable giving Walsh an incomplete until we see what else he does in free agency and with trades into October or perhaps February. But I will note that other teams are clearly improving, while the Knicks not so much, yet.


Buzzer Beaters . . .

Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.  You were an inspiration to many.  We have a little more MJ on our fantastic playlist. . . .Check out the Fanatics Live Blog of the Draft.  It is fabulous.  The participants, lead by O&B included Peaceman, Bronx in Maryland, DLT Knicks, Post p Prince, Tman, Modi, Paula and Jay Bee.. . . I see you guys didn’t pick up my Tweets in the LBE. I’ll have to show the LBE administrator how to include me next time, but I was tweeting to 46 Twitter followers. Although, my fingers are too big for Blackberry keys and the fans around me wanted to talk shop, I did a fair job of covering the action. . . . Knicks Fanatics hits are growing rapidly — yesterday we hit a high of over 200 hits and we’ve been linked by Fanhouse and other blogs that recognize the energy and quality of the community. . . .Bronx is the man.  At 7:33pm, on the live blog he said “I think they’ll go big with the   8th pick, and get a guard at 29.”. . . I sat in the second row right in front of Mark Jackson, Jay Bilas, Mark Jackson (the camera’s blocked my view of Stuart and David Stern for the most part). . . . Then I went and hung out in the press room (Play by Play) where the press had the hook-up (courtesy of some friends with cred). They had free fruit, brownies, thirst quenchers and lots of big screen TVs, but damn I couldn’t get wifi to work. I will not be quitting my day job(s). . . . I got lousy picks of two tall guys with baseball caps as they walked by me and some security folks near the interview room. They looked like Brandon Jennings and Stephen Curry. Actually they were. I tried to tell them to look out for me at the summer league, but they were in a rush. . . . Cleveland trades for Shaq.  Cleveland still in need of more mobile big at the 4.  If Shaq comes to camp in shape, Celtics and Magic beware. . . . Oh yeah, did the Magic screw up by getting Vince Carter or what?. . . . Rubio threatening to go to Europe instead of cold-azz Minnie. . . .O.K., I’m outta pocket for a while because I need to do some real work that will feed Alpha Jr. and make Ms. Alpha not hover over me while I’m on the computer in July. . . . Thanks to IGM for the work on the draft scouting reports. . . .Peace out.


June 26, 2009 - Posted by | Jordan Hill, NBA Draft, NBA Lottery, Rick Rubio, Stan Van Gundy, Toney Douglas | , , , , ,


  1. […] Knicks Pick Up Jordan Hill at 8, Toney Douglas at 29 and Milicic … Tags: post, thread-starter, threads-, Today, toney, toney-douglas, with-the-6th […]

    Pingback by Knicks Pick Up Jordan Hill at 8, Toney Douglas at 29 and Milicic … | Jordan today | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  2. ESPN News is reporting



    Do you believe that “the Knicks will Call” is breaking news.

    Give me a break.

    Still think Walsh will use Lee/N8, expiring contracts,and rights to Douglas to get Rubio.

    Comment by D L T Knicks | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  3. Hey Q is gone. As far as I’m concerned last night was a win with that one move. But like I said in the LBE Walsh was playin’ with scared money early on. Once he lost Curry, he needed some magic beans. So he bought some in L.A. thinking that two defensive minded players might make people believe we’re going to play defensive ball. Not with this coach. Fortunately though, Hill should be an improvement from Lee. With Darko and Eddy? at the center position that means we should have more height. Provided David Lee is traded Starting 5 is IMO, Darko (C), Gallinari (PF), Harrington (SF), Hughes (SG) Duhon(PG)

    Note there’s been an Eddy sighting. My boy is rewarding my faith in him. lol. See article below.

    Comment by Jay Bee | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  4. Here is the article:

    Knicks’ interest heightens Rubio hypeComment Email Print Share By Chris Sheridan
    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — The New York Knicks are curious whether Ricky Rubio will wind up in Minnesota or Spain next season, curious enough that team president Donnie Walsh was planning to contact Minnesota by the end of the day Friday to begin seeking answers.

    Like everyone else around the NBA, the Knicks were taken by surprise Thursday night when the Timberwolves used the fifth and sixth picks of the NBA draft to select a pair of point guards, Rubio and Syracuse’s Jonny Flynn.

    The suspense deepened after Rubio’s father told a Spanish media outlet that Rubio would prefer to return to Spain for at least one season, maybe two, and the Timberwolves found themselves Friday in the uncomfortable position of planning their introductory post-draft news conference without the player they sacrificed Mike Miller and Randy Foye to select.

    NBA Rumor Central
    ESPN Insider has the updated buzz from the National Basketball Association rumor mill.

    “There is such a thing as drafting assets. I don’t know if that is what he’s doing,” Walsh said of new Timberwolves general manager David Kahn, who worked under Walsh for several years with the Indiana Pacers as Walsh’s assistant GM.

    Looking back on the events of the past few days, Walsh said Kahn had indicated to him — an indication that Walsh initially dismissed — that he might take two guards with the two picks. So Walsh said it was the biggest surprise of the night, in his opinion, when Minnesota took Flynn with the sixth pick — giving the Knicks the assurance that they would get one of the two players remaining on the board that they coveted — Jordan Hill or Stephen Curry.

    “It was just a general conversation,” Walsh said. “We didn’t talk about players, but he said, ‘I would take two little guys.’ And I thought it was just a comment meaning, ‘I’m not going to do this in a prototypical type of way, because I need players.’ ”

    Hill was the player the Knicks took with the No. 8 pick, and New York also selected Florida State guard Toney Douglas with the No. 29 pick they purchased for $3 million from the Los Angeles Lakers.

    The best Hill moment from Friday was when he mentioned how he remembered when the Knicks had Patrick Ewing and Charles Oakley and were good. Asked how old he was when he formed those memories, Hill answered “5 or 6.”

    The best Douglas moment was when he showed off his No. 23 jersey and it was pointed out to him that there might be a free agent out there 12 months from now who would probably want that number for himself.

    Walsh insisted that his draft selections would have no bearing on the uncertain futures of restricted free agents David Lee and Nate Robinson, though it was hard to ignore the fact that Hill and Douglas could fill the roles Lee and Robinson occupied the past three seasons (and, in a perfect world, newly acquired Darko Milicic could spend a season grabbing some of the rebounds Lee specialized in corralling).

    The Knicks value Lee more than they do Robinson, but if Lee and/or Robinson are going to take up a large portion of the cap space the Knicks want to have available next summer to make a run at LeBron James/Dwyane Wade/Chris Bosh, both could be expendable.

    “I’m always looking at 2010, because I do want to be in the free-agent market in a big way, so I would say it’s going to be my job to make sure that happens — that we don’t disrupt that in a major way,” Walsh said.

    Toward that end, Walsh will continue during the summer to try to find takers for Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries, two of the four players (Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari are the others, to be joined shortly by Hill and Douglas) under contract through the 2010-11 season.

    In hindsight, the Knicks had some huge regrets Friday. Two weeks ago, they were convinced Rubio would be off the board at No. 5, leading them to turn down a deal that would have sent Larry Hughes and Chandler to Washington for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Oleksiy Pecherov and the No. 5 pick (New York would not have surrendered the eighth pick in that trade), and Washington ended up getting Miller and Foye for the pick.

    Now, depending on how things shake out between Rubio and the Timberwolves, the NBA rights to the 18-year-old could come onto the market this summer, next season or even in the summer of 2010 or 2011 if he opts to return to DKV Joventut rather than relocate to Minneapolis — Rubio’s astronomical $6 million buyout drops to zero in the summer of 2011).

    One of the biggest certainties of the day Friday was that Kahn would be receiving a number of exploratory phone calls inquiring about his plans should Rubio balk at reporting.

    And if that is the case, the rights to Rubio could be an asset that increases in value in the weeks and months ahead.

    “I haven’t spoken to Minnesota, I will,” Walsh said. “I don’t know what’s going on there. He took a lot of point guards, and I want to ask him, ‘Why did you do that?’ ”

    Kahn traded two of the four point guards he drafted, sending Ty Lawson to Denver for a future first-round pick and dealing Nick Calathes to Dallas. Kahn also insisted in an ESPN interview Thursday night that he was committed to keeping both Rubio and Flynn and playing them together, but a huge factor in that equation is how easy or difficult it is going to be for the Wolves to play ball with Rubio and his agent, Dan Fegan, who has a history of trying to steer his international clients away from small-market teams.

    A rival agent of Fegan’s predicted that Minnesota owner Glen Taylor would take a stubborn stance if Rubio tried to force the Wolves’ hand.

    “He’s very thoughtful,” Walsh said of Kahn, “and I think you’d be wrong to judge him based on this because he probably has Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, Step 4 [already planned]. And he’s going into a situation that needs some change, and he’s looking at trying to change it, and he’ll do it in various ways — and the draft is the first step in this process.”

    Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

    Comment by D L T Knicks | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  5. Thanks Jay Bee and DLT for updating us on Walsh’s inquiry into Rick Rubio and the Eddy Curry sighting.

    I think that other than selling the farm, to me trading Chandler is selling the farm, to acquire Rubio there may be options that allow the Knicks to keep there bargain basement priced up and coming two way playing stud.

    One option is using your financial get out of jail free card assets, as I mentioned during the LBE combining the cap relief aspects of Mobley’s contract or the trade exceptions with some combination of players other than Chandler would be a good option.

    Also the Knicks could use those assets and perhaps a sign and trade of their restricted free agents, Lee or Nate, to facilitate a three way deal with teams who may have assets the Wolves might want.

    The Knicks could also provide a combo of their cap relief asetts, future draft picks in the 2011 draft, and the sign and trade inclusion of a third team to entice Minny into a deal all the while still protecting the Knicks young up and coming studs.

    Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  6. Rubio Discussions Begin?
    More Timberwolves News
    Rubio Skips Press Conference
    Walsh Says He’ll Call Kahn About Rubio

    Jun 26, 2009 6:46 PM EST
    After Ricky Rubio skipped his introductory press conference with the Wolves, says that discussions on a possible trade to send Rubio to the Knicks are under way.

    The report cites sign-and-trades of David Lee and Nate Robinson although such a deal could not be consummated until after the July moratorium is lifted. says it can confirm these negotiations to send Rubio to New York but there is no way to independently verify the report.

    Marc Berman reports on the situation in his New York Post blog.

    “The Knicks privately believe Rubio wants to be in New York and his agent Dan Fegan will work hard to make that happen,” writes Berman. “The Knicks have intricate knowledge of Rubio’s buyout contract; their European scout, Kevin Wilson, lives in Barcelona and is friends of the family.”

    Berman also says that the Knicks “believe” that Rubio’s contract buyout, currently standing at $6.5 million, “can easily be worked out.”

    According to Berman’s source, Rubio’s camp “is hopeful the Knicks move in and strike a deal with the T’wolves.”


    Comment by D L T Knicks | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  7. COMMENTS I POSTED @ THE FIX (In defense of Keeping Chandler and not sacrificing him to acquire Ricky Rubio)


    I agree with you, not about the blog in decline, but about the sentiment to casually trade away a player like Chandler. Lee or Nate straight to Minny, not as likely less Minny jettisons Love, or via a multiteam trade to acquire Rubio makes more sense should Nate or Lee’s salary requirements jeopardize the cap flexibility Walsh is seeking to obtain for 2010.

    My reasoning again is 1) Chandler is our best two way player thus far; 2) improved with PT and appears to be working hard (check his twitter) to take further steps to round out his game; 3) he is insurance in the event Nillo’s back isn’t fully recovered or the condition limits the length of his career; 4) since there is no gauranteee which free agent will come to NY, everyone wants Le Bron and I do too, penciling 2010 as a SF acquisition sure thing is not sound policy when we don’t know who’ll be coming to New York.

    Again this version of the Knicks has a series of assets that they could use in a pincer action with an intermediary. I’m giving Walsh some credit.

    Also note that since Utah acquired Maynor, redundant since they have their star guard Deron Williams, there may be a trade avenue to pursue in the event Rubio’s acquisition has to steep a price. Utah is a small market team about looking to resign Paul Millsap and probrably looking to maintain cap space flexibility for that task and signing free agents down the road.

    There may be options,… Donnie’s armed to the teeth let’s hope he bites hard and a nabs some help for the Knicks at the point.

    Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  8. I don’t see trading Lee for Rubio. Gallo is not strong enough to play the 4 and is more suited as a 3 who can shift at times to the 2. For the present, Hill cannot replace Lee as a starter.

    Hill is better defensively than Lee; he will certainly block more shots; and is a good rebounder on both boards. But Hill is not nearly as good as Lee offensively. He does not have a strong post-up game nor can he pass out of the post nearly as well as Lee. Hill’s outside shot is better than what Lee showed in his first-two years. I am not sure about his hands and/or lateral defensive movement. Hill will likely improve but he is not there yet. He is a good addition on a second unit and can rotate between the 4 and 5.
    Offensively Lee is substantially better than Hill at this point. Lee is very much part of the set offense. Lee is an intelligent player with excellent hands and clearly sees the entire oourt. He has improved his post-up game as well as his pick & roll moves in the past year. He comes back from each summer with an improvement to his game. With Darko and or Hill backing him up (not Curry), Lee should be more aggressive and take more risks defensively. Remember, Lee played out of position last year and could not risk foul trouble because there was no back – up to replace him.

    Knicks may acquire Rubio in a package deal with Minnesota, but I doubt that Lee will be part of the package; i.e. unless Walsh can magically pry out Kevin Love from the Wolves. They will more likely agree to take on a padded contract (Al Jefferson–$11 million in 2009).

    Comment by Post-up Prince | June 26, 2009 | Reply

    • That’s a sound point Post-up King:

      But I think Lee’s services have to be within a reasonable price range- if all the bantar about 2010 and cap space to acquire star FAs is to be believed.

      If Lee’s services are outside that price range then Walsh will explore sign and trades, that is where the flip with a 3rd team facilitating a deal for Rubio may happen.

      Still I would rather flip Nate in a three or four team deal to acquire Rubio- sure the Knicks will have to throw in the 2011 draft pick and use some of their cap exceptions but it will be nice to have and mold a true passer to make the offense hum.

      Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 26, 2009 | Reply

  9. While at the fix,… I know I know I should have learned my lesson bout some of them bloggers but the site and SNY’s Knicks Blog are ok!

    Still Steve Adameck and Howard Beck are my favorite Knick Beats writers


    @ Sec11rowH

    “i find it difficult to respect the thinking of anyone who wouldn’t trade either/both lee or chandler for rubio. rubio has a chance to be a superstar in this league for a decade; lee will never be more than a role player (he can’t shoot, he can’t cover a turtle, and his hops are already in decline), and chandler is a usual suspect (streaky shooter, low b-ball IQ, poor court vision, injury prone). even if rubio didn’t work out, there is little chance that a trade like this would seriously come back to haunt you. it is important to keep in perspective that including lee in a deal is not really giving anything up, the guy is a (restricted) free agent. you could argue that you are actually getting by giving, inasmuch as you won’t have his bloated contract on the books going forward. so yes, lee AND chandler for rubio is still a good deal.”

    Was that an ad homonym attack on any person who pauses to throw in a player whose production exceeds his current cost, Chandler, star or no star? Is Chandler plain out retarded? You sound to quick to make the argument personal.

    I like Rubio, like what I’ve seen but the kid has warts, legit ones, frail frame, doesn’t shoot particularly well, plays below the rim, average to below average athleticism. These question marks, deficiencies, warts what have you will likely be as exposed as his penchant for highlight real passing will be highlighted.

    While I do not think Chandler is an all star or star, he IMHO is further along in his development than Trevor Ariza a fellow 3 acquired by Zeke. Again his production outpaces his value and he can and does contribute on both ends. By no means is Ill Will perfect, he can and should improve his dribble, work on being less mechanical and also improve his consistency in approaching but Will is a commodity who we have a cleared picture of.

    Teams passed on Rubio and Minny apparently appears inclined to use him as trade bait. If Ricky was such a slam dunk then he ought to have been chosen at 3 at the very least- I say that b/c Memphis didn’t want to deal with another player not wanting to go there at 2.

    Lastly giving up a low budget commodity with less question marks currently for a kid- who I do like – but who has plenty of question marks doesn’t warrant pulling the trigger for our more proven player as trade fodder. Lee and Nate’s potential contract situation make both expendable enough to include in a multi player deal for Rubio and Rubio will need two way defensive players- Chandler, Douglas (Hill if the rumors are true) to have his back should his frame or foot speed put him at the mercy of the quicker bigger and stronger NBA points.

    Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 27, 2009 | Reply

  10. O & B: I think they can keep Lee for 7-8 million. I don’t see any team offering him much more.

    I also like Rubio’s game, but would consider trading trading Chandler, not Lee, to get him. They can also throw in the Balkman exception and Mobley’s contract. Chris Wilcox can also be moved. I agree that a 3rd team may have to be involve.

    As much as I like Chandler, who will only get better, they already have Harrelson and Gallo at the 3; and the idea of 2010 is Lebron — the best 3 out there; an alternate choice would be Melo–also a 3. They don’t need Chandler. If they get Lebron or Melo, they can later move Harrelson or Gallo if he proves to be a bust. Last year for Gallo was not a rrue test because of the back injury. The first week of July will be very interesting. Walsh cannot stand pat at the point with simply Duhon. If they can’t get Rubio, then sign and trade N8 and buy Ramon Sessions.

    Comment by Post-up Prince | June 27, 2009 | Reply

    • Post-up,
      I think we can put Lebron to bed forever! It looks like
      Rasheed Wallace will end up in Cleveland too! Lebron will
      never leave his hometown. I think we’ll make one big coop
      during summer league, perhaps the under used Jarred Bayless?
      This summer is wide open, with the exception of Lebron!
      Time to let that pipe dream go!

      Comment by Peaceman | June 27, 2009 | Reply

      • I keep hearing round the blogosphere and radio shows that Lebron is merely looking for a reason to go to NY. If they win a chip,… Mission Accomplished! If Lebron with Shaq and possible Sheed fail to win the chip in Cleveland then Lebron could jump ship for a less cursed franchise.

        The one thing that is certain is that there is too much uncertainty to flush Chandler away for Rubio when Rubio, while a talented passer who could make Mike’s offense hum, has as many legit question marks as the rest of the field in this years guesse em draft class.

        Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 27, 2009

    • Post-up

      The thing about easily jettisoning Chandler in the anticipation that the Knicks will acquire a 3, Lebron, Melo etc, is that there is no guarantee that either of those big star 3s will sign up with the Knicks. I continue to maintain that Thrill Will is excellent insurance against Gallo’s back situation, and he has shown plenty enough to believe that he, Wilson, will can develop into a star if not all star calibur 3 for the Knicks.

      Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 27, 2009 | Reply

  11. Thank God Bubble lip is Gone!
    Lets hope Harpo can revive his career here in NY!
    I’d like to see Donnie snatch JJ Redick with a minor
    trade, I think he showed his upside this year!

    Comment by Peaceman | June 27, 2009 | Reply

    • I never thought I’d hear you say JJ Redick an upside! LOL!

      Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 27, 2009 | Reply

  12. Peaceman:

    I am not sure about Lebron wanting to stay in his hometown. We’ll see how much he “love’s Cleveland” during the free agent period in July 2010. A lot of NBA players dream about playing in N.Y.–the big stage, etc. and even covet the pressure–the challenge of “making it here” and the adulation that follows. Lebron may not be able to resist. I agree with you on Bayless–he would be someone to go after without breaking the bank.

    Comment by Post-up Prince | June 27, 2009 | Reply

    • Peaceman and Post-up

      Bayless w/o selling the farm to run the team at the point is allright be me!

      Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 27, 2009 | Reply

  13. OK one last blurb for the week

    Dime Magazine sizes up our 8th pick, Jordan Hill

    Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 27, 2009 | Reply

  14. The Treadmill Keeps Moving,

    Darko, Jordan Hill, & another undersized shooting guard, (Douglass). If a big-man that could run, rebound and block shots was needed. Why did the Knicks pass on Lopez last year?

    Darko + Hill +Roosta = Brook Lopez.
    The coach and GM must become more efficient.

    Contrary to IGM’s take, I believe Rubio is a Busta, and a future Knick. If I describe a point-guard with below average quickness, a poor shooter, good passer, and said, he was from Philly instead of Spain. The Fanatics would say Mardy Collins. Somehow this guy is a lottery pick. Barnum & Bailey said “a sucka is born everyday”.

    Michael Jackson, from Gary Indiana raised by a GOOD woman, and a STRONG-Black man, was able to become legendary. The music lives forever, while the weird shyte stops.

    Peace & Blessings

    Comment by Statesman2 | June 27, 2009 | Reply

  15. Then, last Thursday, Walsh whiffed on Brandon Jennings. ….
    Conversely, “God created Jennings for D’Antoni’s system … minus the jump shot that needs improvement.” That’s straight from a friend of mine who knows a little basketball and has seen the kid play no less than 100 times throughout high school/AAU.

    “Every year he was the best guard in his class,” said a Western Conference GM who tried to obtain a second No. 1 to get him before the Bucks did at No. 10. “Then he went to Italy to play. You know how it works, out of sight, out of mind.”

    “Brandon is a freak athlete with a superior feel for the game and unteachable passing ability. He flaunts Pistol Pete flair, Isiah Thomas toughness with a nasty streak to match, doesn’t take crap from anybody and always has the backs of teammates. Plus he loves New York. Used to come to the city to play at Rucker Playground and in other outdoor leagues. He would’ve reinvigorated the Garden.

    You appear to believe that the “ICE IS COLDER”. Peter Vecsey wrote the above in today’s Post. Your ranking of the guards and those the Knicks needed was so far off that I assumed you were working for Walsh, or you’re Ed Tapscott II(Fred Weiss). As Isiah has said, “When drafting you select guys that you would select on the playground to play with you”. You appear to prefer guys that you would select at the YMCA. The guys that are slow, lack quickness, but are good guys.

    Peace & Blessings

    Comment by Statesman2 | June 28, 2009 | Reply

    • Well for me the one thing I sensed was a certain biased tendency by our fellow blogger IGM.

      I will say Jennings speed and physcial gift, if honed along with his jumper has the best ceiling.

      I’m not in Jennings, or Rubio’s or Curry’s head for that matter to size up their heart or how they tick and what motivates them. So to jump the gun and size up who’ll hone their inner fire to forge themselves into a game changer or franchise player, is very premature.

      Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 28, 2009 | Reply

  16. Fellas,

    I appreciate the love you have for Brandon Jennings and your passion for my refusal to anoint him as you have.

    To be sure every general manager has a different approach to selecting players as they do to team building. Not all are very good at both selecting players and building a team. I truly appreciate Isiah’s talent for selecting individual players. I agree with his insistence that players show intensity, concentration and energy. However, as you may understand, players you would select on the playground are not always the ones you would select for the hardwood. In fact, more often than not playground stars peak on the playground and become legends in neighborhood lore. We all know there were playground legends who could beat the likes of Hall of Famers; Dr. J will tell you that.

    It takes more than talent to succeed in the NBA.

    It takes more than speed to succeed in the NBA.

    There were many great street ballers and college stars who did not succeed in the NBA. Brandon Jennings raises questions about his ability to lead and to handle the rigors of the NBA as a businessperson and a baller. Walsh was not the only GM with concerns. Jennings was picked tenth and was so concerned about his stock that he left the greenroom. David Kahn, the new Minneapolis GM and OKC GM, Sam Presti were among those who had concerns.

    Walsh was right to be concerned. Personally, I believe if he was going to risk the 8th pick on Jordan Hill, he could have easily chosen Brandon Jennings who comes with greater entertainment value for the next two years.

    Statesman, I am not sure about you “Ice Is Colder” reference. As I understand it, it was historically used in African American communities to suggest that some black folks believe ice sold by a white man is colder than ice sold by a black man. I am assuming that your metaphor is meant to suggest that I believe the MSM’s negative assertions about Jennings over your and O&B’s legitimate observations.

    With all due respect, we all know that guessing the life span of draft prospects is an inexact art akin to reading tea leaves. It is difficult, though fun, to be exact in projecting talent and ability from one level to a higher one. Yet, I do trust my own observation more than the MSM whose ice may or may not be colder than yours. In this case, we’ll need to wait a few years to see whose observations melt under the sweltering reality of NBA ball.

    Milwaukee could prove to be the right place for Jennings where he will face less pressure and less media than in New York. He may be able to concentrate on improving his game. I hope he does and I wich him luck.

    But I believe he needs more than luck to be an NBA success and I remain unconvinced that he has what he needs simply because you gentleman think he’s fast with the ball in his hands and has a nasty streak. That’s not a guarantee for success in my book.

    Comment by igmknicks | June 28, 2009 | Reply

    • There are legitimate concerns about virtually all players picked after Blake Griffin.

      I found my self pleasantly informed by your pre draft scouting reports, and I was swayed to consider the acquisition of either Rubio or Curry with more warmth than what my initial impressions of both players afforded me.

      All I keep on insisting is what you are currently insisting on, which is that no player, save maybe Blake, is a sure thing home run pick.

      Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 28, 2009 | Reply

  17. Come to think of it, O&B and Statesman, are you willing to put your talent judgment abilities to the test. Now, with the added advantage of knowing what player is going to which system, can you tell me which of the following players will succeed and when. I also wonder whether either of you can define what success is in your minds. It would be a shame if a player has a decent career, but one of you should reinvent your definition of success to fit the results.

    How will these guys fair in their careers:

    Tyreke Evans
    Brandon Jennings
    Jordan Hill
    DeMar Derozan
    Jeff Teague
    Blake Griffin
    Jonny Flynn
    Ricky Rubio

    Comment by igmknicks | June 28, 2009 | Reply

    • How will these guys fair in their careers:
      Tyreke Evans– Has skills and potential, but is not a point guard. He’s a Gunner that looks to score and only gives up the ball as a last resort. Sac-town may not be best situation for him

      Brandon Jennings–speed, quickness, and can finish at the rim. Will excel in new NBA that does not allow hand check. Skiles will hold him back initially w/ mind games, but will eventually turn him loose. Steal of draft.

      Jordan Hill–Nothing special. Will play hard and hustle but will have a hard time adjusting to playing against bigger guys. When Pac-10 had good bigs (Lopez brothers, Kevin Love, and others), did not standout. Not impressed, does not make Knicks better.

      DeMar Derozan–Trevor Ariza Jr. Cannot shoot, but is a great athlete,(how many of those are in the league?) If he develops a shot Ariza is his ceiling.

      Jeff Teague–Scorer, with ability. Playing with hawks will hurt due to lack of organization and structure. Will be good scorer off the bench eventually.

      Blake Griffin–I see Kenyon Martin before the injuries. Does not have a shot, and gansta guys in college. Will be harder to do in pros, but will have a serviceable career, if Clippers curse does not stick. Will need a good point to make him better.

      Johnny Flynn–Does a lot of things well, but nothing exceptional. Will be a good backup guard, because of heart, but heart only goes so far. Could be next Kevin Ollie.

      Ricky Rubio–HYPE. When the smoke clears he will be given as many chances as Darko, but will prove as (un)successful as Darko, or White Chocolate. Lack of quickness will hurt. Look at the slow guys guarding him in his highlights.
      Comment by igmknicks | June 28, 2009

      Additional James Harden—Will be first recipient of Acie Law Award(great in college, but subpar pro)

      Thabeet—Lack of quickness in wider lane will not allow him to be as dominant defensively. Offensively a stiff. Roy Hibber Jr.

      Peace & Blessings

      Comment by Statesman2 | June 29, 2009 | Reply

  18. cPeter Veschy touches upon some of the long time concerns of many a Knicks Fanatics…

    “What Walsh has done in the meantime made 41 nights at the Garden scarcely bearable for beaten-down season-ticket holders and figure to stay that insufferable in spite of the surfacing of Milicic: He paid a coach $24M for four seasons based on a system that prospers when its conductor is an MVP maestro and orchestra is in unqualified harmony . . . sat still when D’Antoni commanded little if any defensive accountability and didn’t insist Nate Robinson, at the very least, act like a para-professional.

    He signed a point guard who had his moments but whose body withered and whose bad habits continue.

    He passed on Eric Gordon and Brook Lopez — despite Curry exceeding the calorie cap and not owning a defensive stance — and drafted the son of D’Antoni’s former Italian teammate, a 19-year-old with a recurrently ailing back.”

    Comment by orangeandblue1 | June 28, 2009 | Reply

  19. Wow. It almost sounds like I wrote Vescey’s column at the Fix. I agree wholeheartedly. I approve my co-signature.

    Comment by livesinnewjersey | June 28, 2009 | Reply

  20. Thank you for the entertaining read! Alright playtime is over and back to school work.

    Comment by Lovella Panama | February 4, 2010 | Reply

  21. Derrick Rose is a beast now and who know what happened to Tyreke Evans.

    Comment by Derrick Rose | January 6, 2011 | Reply

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    Comment by Will Licerio | August 23, 2011 | Reply

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